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auntie c
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« on: December 25, 2006, 06:04:28 AM » |
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As most of you know i rehoused a silver standard late early in september. she is a very sweet girl and adapted to life with us within 2 days...
2 weeks after she arrived, while at the beach we noticed worms in her faeces on a walk.. no big drama, these things are not unusual. so off to the vet we went for an all wormer, i use drontal and have done for many many years. ofcourse wormed both of them, washed all the bedding etc as you do...
3 weeks later, again, I noticed them again in her faeces, lucky we pick it up all the time. even at home as she spent all of her time previously in a concreted area, so she is trained to do it on concrete, which we have all the way down the side of our house. very easy to maintain, have heaps of big pots with plants that the dogs cant dig up... we find it works for us.. (and yes we do have lawn right down the back of the house and all out the front..) so we wormed them both again as we were leaving for overseas that week and they were staying with the poodle community here..
having only returned for a week from our holiday i noticed them again......... sheesh. i was really getting sick of the whole thing by now... so went to the vets, told her our problem/s and explained that she obviously has not been wormed properly and effectively since she was a baby... so more drontal and off we go.
after talking to my naturopath she suggested garlic. so she gave me some empty capsules and i was chopping up a whole clove of garlic everyday and dividing it into three capsules, morning, noon and night... we changed her diet to quite a bland one, steamed fish and i was to steam the rice in senna pods..
3 days later at the beach, which she loves. she swim out as far as us. and on our way back up the beach we usually get the big water hydrant coming out her rear from all the sea water she ingests... but this day is was like bloody angel hair pasta. we were totally shocked. we couldnt believe all these worms could be inside her. there would have been 50-60. i was frantically scooping them up. i couldnt leave them on the beach for some unsuspecting dog to ponder across and infect them...
i rang the naturopath and she said this was great and that she believed that she had expelled what was inside her... so we kept up the the fish and rice and the garlic capsules....
last monday morning we woke up to vomit and diahorrea everywhere... the poor darling couldnt walk, her back was arched and she didnt take one step..
i instantly scooped her up, threw her in the car, rang the vet on the way to meet us there.. its was 7.20 am
at a guess i was thinking tortion, i knew there couldnt be a blockage as she had only eaten the fish and rice. something had gone terribly wrong...
the vet checked her, she was de-hydrated, her heart rate was up and had a temp of 40... so they started drip of fluids, painrelief.. i rang back at 4, the only change was that her heart rate had come down a little, but not back to normal. the vet was treating her like she had a torsion of sorts... but didnt really want to rush in surgically to just explore.. so we agreed to keep her there overnight, if no change in the morning then surgery...
next morning and all was well, temp was down to 37 (this suggests infection). heart rate was normal and she had had 3 bags of fluids and pethadine as pain relief....
so the conclusion is that she has never been wormed properly as a baby. she has/is contaminated with worm larvae which survive in the liver until the grow into adult worms which is when they leave the liver and move to the bowel.
so as i was worming her i was only killing the adult worms every 2-3 weeks. like fleas, worms have a life cycle of 7-10 days. as the infestation was of such a massive scale the worms hang on with there two teeth/fangs to the lining of her intestine, as more and more hang on (actually biting her) her intesting telescopes internally with the pain (similar to wincing) which is why she was so hunched over. she was in such extreme pain, she couldnt walk. the last straw was the high dosage of garlic combined with such a bland diet. garlic is a member of the onion family and give some people gas. unfortunately is gave pearl a whole lot of gas.. she was heading for a torsion with the amount of gas in her intestine and bowel. but luckily she somehow got herself out of it...
our continued battle is to keep up the antibiotics for another 4 days. then i am to give her 1 drontal tab each day for three days, wait 7 days and give her another. and again in a month, if we havent seen anything in her faeces, another drontal in a month. then hopefully every 3 months, like harry is used to..
at the moment she is on 3 little meals throughout the day. but tomorrow she is back to usual amount.
what a nightmare, the poor darling.
we hope everyone has had a beautiful day today.
carlene, harry who and pearl the girl
australia
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zefi
Co-Administrator
Location:Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 929
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« Reply #1 on: December 25, 2006, 05:44:04 PM » |
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Gosh. What a horrible adventure. That poor little girl!!!! You should write that entire experience up for the library we want to put on the Poodle Room - so other people can read about it and realise how important it is to properly worm puppies! Sheesh!
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Helen
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« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2006, 02:02:46 PM » |
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Oh no, the poor girl! And poor you too! How scary and awful. I hope that it all settles down and she is able to be free of those worms. When you said she was hunched and couldn't walk, I immediately thought of torsion too, because of Echo. Thank God it wasn't that and your girl is still with you.
Good luck! We'll keep good thoughts for you all!
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Michael
Administrator
Location:Wisconsin
Posts: 282
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« Reply #3 on: December 27, 2006, 01:13:28 PM » |
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Wow, that is awful for her and you. Hope you can eventually look back and know it's all over. I also agree with Zefi....that would make a great article to read for others....not enjoyable, but definitely educational. Please consider doing so and forwarding it to us to post. Thanks, and good luck with the near future with her.
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auntie c
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2006, 05:52:04 AM » |
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JUST AN UPDATE
She is eating normally again now, we really have to start to fatten her up. she is so so skinny and boney now. we have yet to see any worms, which is fantastic news. We have taken her for short walks, but ofcourse she just wants to run and run. Yesterday and again today we went to the beach, but she tired quite quickly so a full recovery has yet to happen. which ended up being a blessing because i didnt want her consuming too much of the pacific ocean. too much salt on her very tender tummy. We start the drontal tomorrow, one a day for three days. then we wait for 30 days. i am very confident that the garlic capsules she was on attended to the worm larvae in her liver. from all the literature i have read, this is what it is supposed to do. my herbalist/naturopath is cringeing at the thought of the 3 drontal tablets. but i am not leaving anything to chance. the condition she is in at the moment i wouldnt like her chances at another overnighter at the vets.
but the one thing we do agree on is the initial dosage was far too high for her. but you can only imagine the lack of evidence, most information is based on fact and not practice. So from our experience if anyone is using or considering using fresh garlic capsules (the ones you make yourself) introduce them very slowly with an unchanged diet. We were using 1 clove of finely chopped garlic a day. (this was inserted into 3 capsules) morning, lunch and evening. Next week i will be reintroducing the capsules but it will only be one a day with her evening meal.
wishing everyone a wonderful new year
carlene, harry who and pearl the girl
australia
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Michael
Administrator
Location:Wisconsin
Posts: 282
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2006, 12:55:27 PM » |
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Keep us updated, Carlene. This is definitely an educational process for all us, and though it's not pretty, we do appreciate you sharing the details with us. Give the girl a hug for us!  |
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zefi
Co-Administrator
Location:Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 929
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2006, 05:26:54 PM » |
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Glad to hear she's feeling a bit better and hope she starts to gain weight and get her strength back now. Poor girl...
As for the garlic vs the drontal (natural vs traditional medicine)... at the end of the day we just want our babies better and we'll do/use anything that gets them well.
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Fluffy
Cool Dog
Location:Northern NSW
Posts: 161
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« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2007, 03:15:46 AM » |
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Is there any chance that garlic can be toxic to dogs as it is part of the onion family? Good luck with your girl.
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auntie c
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2007, 01:15:52 AM » |
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its all in the dosage, like anything. moderation is the key
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auntie c
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2007, 01:25:56 AM » |
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ANOTHER UPDATE.
you are right zefi, its not a politcally correct subject.
well another week has gone by and guess what.......
last friday we were at the beach, and we patiently wait for her to deposit something... we both rush over and hope for the best, but alas. two types of worms were looking up at us, trying to wriggle there way away from the heat.....
so straight home we go, pondered on what the hell we do now.....
I am now going on my own "commonsense" in the knowledge that the larvae take 7-10 days to mature to adult worms. with this in mind i have taken it upon myself to give her a drontal every 5 days, (second one tomorrow night) i am going to do this for 5 tablets (25 days). hoping that we get to them before they have chance to completely mature and reinfect her....
we are absolutely desperate to rid of this menace....
we have acquired a new baby girl to our community, she arrived on sunday. a beautiful black girl, named Grace.
another of our new generation of standards. Gracie wont be venturing out for another month (re parvo) she has been taking human visitors. (shoes left at the door, straight to the bathroom to wash the hands). she is so tiny, at only 8 weeks, i have forgotten how little they are!
anyway, we have told pearl she needs to rid herself of these worms because she has a new baby to foster. we now have four girls and 7 boys.
happy new year everyone
carlene, harry who and pearl the girl
australia
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zefi
Co-Administrator
Location:Tasmania, Australia
Posts: 929
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« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2007, 02:06:15 AM » |
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Sorry to hear about Pearls continuing problem with worms. What a mess.
Today I met little Max, a staffie something cross that was *apparently* found under a car outside a neighbour's house. A young couple who were supposedly looking at the car found him and handed him to her. He is the tiniest most gorgeous little thing. The vet says he's between 7-8 weeks old, has tiny teeth and a chubby tummy and was apparently covered in fleas and infested with worms. Jo has cleaned him up and got him eating and gaining weight. He was so cute!
Anyway, mention of the worms reminded me of him!
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auntie c
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« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2007, 08:29:37 PM » |
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great to mention that, point being that that is the perfect age at which you can effective erradicate them and start them on a regular worming cycle.... so please let them know our dramas....
also, does anyone have any proven way of a diet that will gain weight on dogs, i have clipped pearl this morning and OMG.... she looks anorexic. its terrible. you can see every rib and her hips are clipped tragically because i had to weave in and out of her skeleton....
hoping someone can help us.
carlene, harry who and pearl the girl
australia
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Fluffy
Cool Dog
Location:Northern NSW
Posts: 161
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« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2007, 03:19:05 PM » |
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Sorry to hear about Pearl's ongoing problem. Do the drontal and take a fecal sample to the vet at the end of the period to see if any eggs are present. A vetdirect sales person was telling me that you could safely give a dosage 4 times recommended without poisoning as there was a type of worm (one of the tapeworms from memory) which would only be treated with this dosage.
Is there any possibility that you need to switch tablet brands (different active ingredient) to kill off any resistant worms left in the dog? Because this animal has a short life cycle - resistance is a possibility.
With her weight give frequent small meals - what about the really expensive tin stuff from the vets that they give to dogs (name escapes me but it is kind of like "ensure" which you give to people who can't eat, are very ill and underweight and need concentrated nutrition). Puppy people what about things you give to bitches in whelp or feeding who need extra nutrition - there must be some receipes out there???
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auntie c
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« Reply #13 on: January 10, 2007, 12:13:39 AM » |
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thank you to everyone for your contributions, so that we may all learn together.
the fecal sample is a great idea i will definately be doing that, thanks.
i am one step ahead of you on the changing of the drontal tablets. i have already given her 2 drontals and 1 more to go. then i have 2 milbemax tablets.
we are back to giving her wheatbix with full cream milk for breakfast, for lunch i have gone a purchased canned dog food from the vet, from the I.D range. this is what she was on directly after her overnighter at the vets, but we have gone for a high fat one and dry food for active dogs, as zefi suggested. she is very active though, which is why i believe she isnt keeping the weight on as she is burning it off, not to mention what the worms are surviving on, there wouldnt be much nutritution left for our beautiful girl.. then she is having her normal meal at night with Hazza. not to mention the copious amounts of fresh bread she eats, both our dogs get slices of fresh dry bread, they think it is a treat... i dont like giving them the schmacko type treats or sweet human biscuits.
once again, thank you everyone so much for all your input and advice. it is much appreciated...
carlene, harry who and pearl the girl
australia
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Michael
Administrator
Location:Wisconsin
Posts: 282
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2007, 12:00:15 AM » |
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The fecal is definitely a must do. You need to know what kinds of worms are in her...you mentioned two types. And if you're getting eggs in the feces that might help narrow down timeframes and all too. They are truly pesky critters, but I'm glad you're keeping on things. Please do keep us updated.
As for putting weight on....I think you're on the right track with a high fat diet for now. I've only had to deal with a few dogs that didn't eat well in my time (Amber was one of them), but I think your girl is going through a lot more right now and that's got to be playing a part. I ended up practically having to hand feed Amber for a long time when I first got her. Anyway...do keep us updated.
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