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May 21, 2012, 06:48:38 PM *
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Author Topic: Caution re BARF  (Read 486 times)
crickette
Cool Puppy
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Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 34


« on: May 29, 2007, 05:40:50 AM »

hi

I have ventured carefully into BARF...& my poodle also seems to enjoy it.   However, after discussion with a friend who is a Bacteriologist & works in the Poultry industry(she has a Standard poodle)....I have second thoughts, mainly re chicken. As we know raw chicken needs careful handling, but what had not occurred to me was the length of time effects from possible campylobacter might remain in or about the dog's mouth. My poodle is very licky & my grandson (8yrs)likes to kiss her!!  Frown The other concern is infection remaining in faeces.) 
Also my husband is a retired vet & was not keen on the raw chicken at all.
So my decision is to cook the chicken....continue with raw beef mince & other......as well as all the additions of vegies, oil, vitamins, cheese, yoghurt, egg etc.  I do feel concerned about the balance.  I shall also try out another NZ quality dog meat roll. (not widely available.) 
I include two links....www.dogpeople.org/BARF%20Myth.htm  and  www.workingdogs.com/vcbarf.htm
These may be of interest.
Others may have concerns or thoughts & I would be grateful to hear any responses.   
« Last Edit: May 29, 2007, 05:47:55 AM by crickette » Logged
Fluffy
Cool Dog
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Location:Northern NSW
Australia
Posts: 161


« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2007, 07:45:44 PM »

For me the benefits of feeding raw meaty bones outweigh any possible disadvantages.  I would only cook food for a dog that had digestive problems.  A dogs gut was designed to eat carrion and if you read Zefi's post about the scavenging done by her girls, chicken wings seem positively sterile!  I do not allow my dogs to lick the faces of humans - that same tongue is also used to lick their anus and god knows what on their walks.  My standards are 12, 10 and 4 years of age and have eaten raw meaty bones as part of their diet for their whole lives - their teeth are beautiful.  My old girl would be very disgruntled if there were no more chicken frames or necks - this is what she enjoys the most as part of her meal.  I also feed turkey necks and lamb flaps - other raw meaty bone alternatives are beef, buffalo and whole rabbits.  You definitely need to reseach about calcium and add this to the diet if you are feeding meat without bones - be very careful you can cause lifelong problems for your dog if you overdose or underdose.
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crickette
Cool Puppy
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Location:
New Zealand
Posts: 34


« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2007, 06:19:04 PM »

hi back

Thanks for responding. Re my grandson 'kissing' - I think I have frightened him enough about this to alter his inclinations!    I can't watch all the time.   Cricket (poodle) does not kiss our mouths!
I'm very aware of the balance needed & keep a container of freshly crushed egg shells, etc.
I can also give her raw lamb riblets. The chicken necks may still be an option.    Apart from all the other raw meat & vegies....she loves fish & cheese & yoghurt. I add olive oil but plan to change to fish oil...Also there is a new product in a paste form called 'Mybeau' which has recently been formulated by Massey veterinary university in NZ.   I plan to try this. Not only does it contain many nutrients but is also very palatable.
My aim is to give the best that I can.
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zefi
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Location:Tasmania, Australia
Australia
Posts: 929


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« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2007, 11:35:00 PM »

I dont know... I find it hard to believe that bacteria thats gone IN to the dog comes out STILL as the same bacteria. All feces contain bacteria and no one purposefully goes out there to touch it! Yet some dogs eat it!

Bacteria round the dog's mouth eh? Well... I think studies were done on that which concluded that humans have more bacteria in their mouths than dogs. However, yes, maybe raw chicken juice remains on whiskers and stuff. I cant say. All I know is that I'm not sick yet... and neither is anyone else I know who feeds raw chicken.

Saliva is, I believe, one of the best germ killers around. LOL  At least dog's saliva and stomach acids are - they eat dead things for goodness sake! Things that are green and covered in maggots. They dig up buried 'treasures' all the time. You can't tell me that dogs are hygenic animals.

Everyone I know just about, including myself, feeds raw meat and chicken. Yeah, I should probably be more careful in my own handling of it but I wash my hands and do the best I can with benches, sink and dishes. I rely on the dog's processing to kill the eaten bacteria and on my own cleaning to take care of the rest. Soap and water. Not antibacterial sprays.

As for bones, yes, there will probably always be the risk that a dog can eat something that will perforate its bowel, or compact or whatever. But so can a broken chewed toy, a sock, too much dry food, etc. A few years ago Pagan picked up a chicken wing and crunched on it a few times then spat it out to run to the door to see who was knocking. I picked up the wing and found it had the consistency of a wet rag. She'd crunched the bones totally. Yes there were probably still pointy bits, but honestly I've never found a bit of bone in any of the dog poop in my yard. They obviously digest them.

Perhaps a dog who hasn't been fed raw from birth can't do that... but when a dog's digestive system is used to it they can digest bones. Hair to wrap it in or not! We aren't talking the bones of large mammals here like cow femurs. We're talking chicken or rabbit bones.

And while I'm on this subject - the bacteria one - I might say something that gets me really worked up. All this hygenic, antibacterial, steralized stuff... I have a friend who's so fanatical she sterilizes her house every day cause she lives in fear that her kids will touch something dirty. These are not robust healthy kids. I wonder why? I grew up in a country town, we played in the dirt and made mud pies and even tasted some of them! We patted animals and didnt wash our hands. Heaven forbid her kids do that.... Now I heard on TV that some doctor is marketing 'dirt pills' for kids that dont get the benefit of germs in their life! I mean REALLY. If you dont have some exposure to bacteria how can you fight them?

I'm just saying, yeah, be careful, but dont go overboard.

(Better go Glen20 the poodles!) Smile
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zefi and the colourful poodles in tasmania
billybear, montana, bonnard
www.zefiart.com
www.pantonepoodles.com
Fluffy
Cool Dog
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Location:Northern NSW
Australia
Posts: 161


« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2007, 06:02:16 AM »

Zefi, "I'd better go Glen 20 the poodles" Tongue 2 Tongue 2 Tongue 2  That cracks me up.  On a more serious note - as a regular reader of New Scientist magazine there are frequent articles about the benefits of exposing children to low levels of bacteria, animal hair etc (aka Zefi's childhood) Children who live on farms have been shown to have much better immune systems than their Glen 20 happy cousins and less ahsma (sp?)  There was even an article which suggested a low level of parasites (worms) had health benefiets as well (eeew) Big Grin
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zefi
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Location:Tasmania, Australia
Australia
Posts: 929


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« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2007, 10:42:46 PM »

My point exactly Fluffy. The thing is that people overdo it nowadays with the sterilazation thing. We need to be exposed to germs and dirt and animals in order to develop healthy immune systems.

I have a neighbour who's a farmer, born and bred right here on this road. He's so funny. He'll be out there working in the garden, digging or whatever, and if you offer him a sandwich he'll take it and eat it. His wife is always saying 'wash your hands first!' but he always says 'its good clean dirt. Wont hurt me' LOL
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zefi and the colourful poodles in tasmania
billybear, montana, bonnard
www.zefiart.com
www.pantonepoodles.com
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