Vaccination reaction

[Bamse]

Hi Everyone,

I have a new red toy called Bamse (pronounced Bamser). I took her to the vet for her 2nd shot of vaccinations and these past 2 days she just hasn't been her usual self. She no longer follows me around, she sleeps most of the time but still shows anxiety when I leave. She always walks slowly when before she was running or had a skip in her step. It is quite sad to see her like this.

I took her to the vet again (the 3rd time in 3 days) and they suggested that she stay overnight for observation. I felt so sad when I left the surgery.

Has anyone else's puppy experienced a similar ordeal? My suspicion is that she's suffering from a mild reaction to the vaccine. At least I hope that that's what it is.

I look forward to hearing from anyone.

P xx

[partipoo1]

Hi Bamse,  yes I have a rat terrier also and I have experienced the same thing.  She seemed to snap out of it after about a week, but I would let her sleep as much as she needs to, her body know what it needs.  I just made sure she would still eat a little and definitely drink.  She would run a fever too.  When I got my toy poodle, Domino, the lady told me that I should give him a dose of children's benedryl one hour before the vacinnation and then again 45 minutes afterwards to help with the reaction that little dogs have to the full doses they give.  I asked my vet if she could regulate the dosage amount and she told me that if it was, that it would not be effective.  I hope this helps....

[zefi]

I've never heard of giving Benadryl, but vaccinations are a real problem. See my website for Billy's story. I'll never give a C5 again (5 in one) and would prefer to split vaccinations as they did in Greece when I had my first toy - 2 at a time and rabies on its own.

[Bamse]

Bamse's back now! I'm so happy. One thing I noticed when she saw me was that she was very excited and then after a while, oddly it seemed like she was in a bad mood with me. I can't quite explain it but I just felt it a lot. Now that I have brought her back home, I can see that she is still moody somewhat. I actually noticed this before she fell ill.

I am studying for my exams at the moment and Bamse was actually a Birthday gift (don't worry I do love her to bits and I did want a dog). It was probably a bad time to receive a dog as at night she just cries and cries and cries. Usually I would just leave her in her crate/pen but of course with my studies I need my sleep so I have been letting her sleep with me then in the middle of the night I usually let her off the bed so that she can relieve herself and then she goes and sleeps where she should. That's how it's been since I brought her back ( 10 days ago). However the nights before she fell ill, I tried my best not to let her sleep with me and it is as if she's now harboured some dislike or annoyance towards me. Again, it's just a feeling. I find her behaviour quite odd. When I give her attention she is a bit unreceptive and looks the other way (which I know is quite bad in dog language) but then if I leave her alone and do my own thing, she instantly comes to see what I am doing or 'needs me'. It appears like a little game but I am not sure how to handle it as of course I don't want to upset her at this early stage.

Can anyone give any advice on this or recognise what she's doing/feeling/what i should do?

Bamse

[katherinebryce]

Hi!

Zefi said this is something I might be able to help with.  I'll toss out a few ideas and let you take it from there if you like.

>>One thing I noticed ... it seemed like she was in a bad mood with me. I can't quite explain it but I just felt it a lot. Now that I have brought her back home, I can see that she is still moody somewhat. I actually noticed this before she fell ill.>>

I'm guessing she is a puppy since she is having vaccinations.  My first thought on this, all things being equal, is that she is no longer a baby puppy, ie, under 4 months.  (I'm American and not used to the Ozzie designation for shows!)

If so, she's not in a bad mood with you, she's just growing up.  If you've been indulging her every whim, I could see where she might be getting crabby if you had the nerve to set a boundary or two, though.  The fact you are studying for exams could be a trigger too -- first she was the center of your life and suddenly there is something else on your mind. 

Tough.  Life happens.  She needs to understand that Life does indeed happen.  Just like a little kid, she will learn the whole world does not revolve around her.  Don't feel guilty either!  Kids and dogs do better with clear boundaries and guidance.

>>at night she just cries and cries and cries. >>>

Yep she will.  And if you give in and let her sleep with you it ain't gonna get better.  Exams or no, she has to sleep where you want her to.  Consider it practice for having a baby!  LOL 

If you won't give in, she will give up within a week, right around the end of exams.  Now you can be exhausted and cranky just like a real mom.

When I give her attention she is a bit unreceptive and looks the other way (which I know is quite bad in dog language)>>

Not necessarily!  It could easily mean she is apprehensive.  Does she lookaway, liplick, turn her back?  Those are all signs of mild discomfort, not brattiness.  She is trying to calm herself and you.

Give her attention by sitting quietly with her.  when she notices you, light up like a lightning bug with a smile and a QUIET "Bamse" -- and offer her a tiny treat like boiled chicken or cheese.  Repeat until she is happily looking at you.  Stop.

Should take about 5-10 mins the first time, much less on subsequent times.  Relax.  Calm, center, focus. Meditate on "Bamse looking at me."  LOL  If you get short-tempered, stop and only begin again when you can be calm.
 
>>if I leave her alone and do my own thing, she instantly comes to see what I am doing >>

Ummm.  You ever seen a little kid tugging at Mom's sleeve, going Mommy/Mommy/Mommy?  grrr.  They do it to annoy.  I swear!  signed, mother of two and grandmother of four.

Seriously, kids and dogs do have a lot in common.  Moms should have similar things in common: patience, consistency, clear goals.  I strongly suspect she isn't old enough to be running around the house unsupervised, so crate or pen her with a nice toy and juicy bone when you can't play with her.  Set short times (5-15 minutes) once or twice a day where you devote time to her training and socialization.  Get her lots of exercise, since a tired dog is a good dog.  Teach her lots of stuff ranging from basic manners to tricks so she doesn't get bored.

>>I don't want to upset her at this early stage.>>

<smothered laughter>  This is when I like to traumatize them judiciously as much as possible.  I AM the guide, I LOVE it when you show confidence in public, I IGNORE your fear (assuming there's nothing to fear of course!) and encourage your appropriate behavior by marking it with praise/food, etc.  You notice it's all about me.  Humans must lead, dogs must follow in this society.  That's just the way it is. 

If you baby them, they will act like babies.  If you guide them to adulthood, they will become responsible adults.  Don't worry too much about their inner traumas, as they won't have too many -- and a little trauma only stiffens the psyche, not tramples it.  If you do the best *you* can, your dog will turn out okay.

Katherine Bryce
The Family Dog
Santa Fe NM  USA

[katherinebryce]

I forgot to add to the chorus of voices concerned about Bamse's reaction to a vaccine. 

If she is having her second round of vaccs and has reacted to it in this way, I would be seriously concerned about allergies to something in the vaccine.  Might be eggs or chicken parts.  Whatever.  You don't react to allergens on first exposure because you have nothing to react WITH.  However, on second exposure, all hell can break loose.

I'd be REAL cautious about any more vaccinations for this little one.  Fer shure, I wouldn't be using multiple vaccs anymore.  Break them up!  At least two weeks apart and no more in one session than you can possibly manage, ie, if you can give each one separately, that would be good.  Not always possible though.

Tell the vet about your concerns.  Mention the above: first exposure vs subsequent.  He should know this, but it never hurts to remind them.  If she has a similar reaction to the next round or god forbid gets really sick, your vet should be able to sign an affadavit saying she should never be vaccinated again.

This is not the end of the world.  Most dogs do fine with puppy vaccs and nothing more.  Consider how our own vaccs go -- how often do you get a tetanus shot, or a measles shot for that matter?  Why we so overvaccinate our pets is beyond me. . . . but that's another story.

If she can't be vaccinated again, she'll be fine.  Her immune system was just overwhelmed.  She should recover (though Zefi has a lovely little horror story about Billy . . .).

Good luck.  Read up on the subject so you can stand up for your dog if need be.

Katherine Bryce
The Family Dog
Santa Fe NM USA

[zefi]

Yeah. Poor little Billy. Still thinks he's the most gorgeous little boy in the world (and to me he is!) as he prances around the living room killing stuffed toys and showing off his bare butt and rat tail. I love him. But I'm so sorry he no longer has that beautiful coat he had when he was younger... I wish I'd done better by him by taking more notice of the signs and reading more and not vaccinating. But I just did what the vets said and what society expected without questioning. All I can say is I'm grateful its only his hair we lost!