Training the new Poo puppy question

[bunny]

I have a 3 mo standard poo and I'm looking into methods of training.  I'm trying my very best NOT to do destructive things right now (as in using "off" instead of down for furniture and so on.  In fact, I'm trying not to even use the word "no" yet).   But I have mixed feelings about the clicker. 

For one thing, the Border Collie rescue that I had here was petrified of it and would go hide and not come back out until I put it up.  Not even when I just had it in my hand, not even in position to click would she come out.  I don't know what happened to her, but it seemed to involved the clicker somehow.  She was rehomed. I got her out of the pound and saved her life, but I left it to others to break through to her. She was shut down and not really a pet by the time I got her.   I might have been able to get through to her in time, but it took almost 2 years to get her into the rescue (they are that full of BC's) and I had seen no progress in that time.

Then I had a German Shep rescue.   She was so easy to train, that I didn't need any operant other than a simple 1 stroke of her head.    But she had major separation anxiety issues which we never could overcome, so she was rehomed.  I still miss her and really wish I hadn't done it. But she got the runs every time I left her, even for 10 minutes.  That was pretty hard to take. It was explosive too, so that even the crate did virtuatlly no good.  But never was there a more loving and sweet dog.  She was Lassie when I was home.  Miss Perfect, and also just plain sweet.

Mostly I've had Cockers - 4 of them.  The 1st 3 only got housetraining and basic obedience, sit, stay and so on.   All of them learned it quickly and easily and probably should have been taken on to greater things.  But they seemed happy not persuing anything else and I was too.  The 4th one is very high drive.  I took him to agility classes, in which he did well, in spite of the instructors prejudice against the breed.  He and the other Cocker in the class were the ones she used to demo new behaviors - because they were the least frightened and would do 'anything' for treats - but after that, she just ignored them, even when they weren't performing well, we'd just get a summary turn at the equipment, no help.  Then she'd work and work with the others who weren't nearly as eager to do it.   I didn't return to any more classes, needless to say. 

At home I trained him on the equipment he hadn't been exposed to there (with food).  I took him to 1 "fun" trial where he did very well, in spite of having almost no training on the equipment I didn't have.  (I had weave poles, teeter, some jumps and a tunnel (not the collapsing kind - which is what he refused at the trial).  He went right through the tire with no training at all.  But alas, I don't enjoy agility much myself, so we didn't perservere.  I still have him and he is still high drive, can't sit still.  He obeys, but a long stay is out of the question.  He just doesn't have it in him.

Now I have the puppy.  So if there are any undue fear/axiety issues, it will be my fault, not something I inherited.    I have to say though, that already at only 3 mo, my Poo has already figured out that she doesn't *have* to mind all the time.   She still eagerly comes back when called, but there will come a day when she is off lead, outside and something else will be more captivating than my voice.    Any hints on how to make commands mean something *now*?

Thanks
Donna

[zefi]

Hi Bunny and welcome to the PR. Congratulations on your new puppy too!

I find that this is the best time to teach puppies all kind of things are they are so happy to be with you that they will always come when you call! So nows the time to start things like calling and rewarding for come, teaching them to pee on command, to sit and stay and do all those little commands that come in helpful for training them to do other more complicated things down the track.

Hopefully Katherine can give you some advice on training. I have used the clicker very successfully to train Billy (my toy) and to some extent Scooter (another toy) but Pagan never liked the clicker... never really could get past the whole thing despite me 'loading' it a LOT. oh well.... I have had a few short sessions with Montana, but really havent stuck with it. She seems eager to work for treats no matter what method I use.

[auntie c]

oh donna,

i can only say, goodluck with that...

it is quite documented throughout PR that I am now living with numbers 3 & 4 standards, both I have rescued...

i started my adult life with on Old english sheepdog, then was so over the grooming every night (with 2 small children at the time) that when she passed I thought i would treat myself with a low maintenance dog... so silly me went and got a doberman... i mean, that short, sharp hair was everywhere. i couldnt vacuum it out of the carpet it would just stand up in it... then i was introduced to a black standard called lilly... (there is a whole page here dedicated to her life & passing) i was awestruck.. so i was lucky enough ( i call i fate) to be offered a white standard named max... (his life and passing is here as well)....

i must say of all the dogs i have had thus far, Max came to me with the most baggage... i could not let him off  a lead for the first 3 years... but harry and pearl have made up for him... they are angels! or im older and more tolerant!..

the only attempt i had at a puppy was a sweet std choc girl (whose short life is here in PR as well) after max i was totally committed to the whole 'come' thing... she was very rarely on a lead... i just gave her my total trust from day one and magically it was returned.... as she got older i had to teach her 'stop' but that was about it...

i am sure you will get some good advice here from the professionals!

welcome to PR & goodluck with your new baby, sounds like you have earned her

carlene
harry who and pearl the girl
australia

[bunny]

Thank you, everyone.   After I wrote, I remembered I had a really good article saved from long, long ago about getting a really good (life-saving) recall.   I will try to post that somewhere on my website, so that if anyone else is interested, they can look at it, see if it is for them or not.    Sometimes you read something and it just clicks, and you just *know* it will work.  It is like that.   I also read (In a BC book!) about the method I used to train the Cocker on the weave poles.  It too was like that. As soon as I read it, I just knew it would work.  And it did.    I trained him on them in just one day, and had it proofed by 1 week. (It is so much easier when the dog is a true chow hound, IMO).    Unfortunately I don't think I still have that article, I sold the book.   

Hi Zefi and Carlene, Your pictures are beautiful.  I have not been able to get any good shots of Leia yet, she is just too wiggley!

I'm looking forward to everyone's opinion.   We've already had some progress.   She was "going" outside to grand celebration.  But she would also use the end of the hallway when it was convenient too.   She now comes to me and turns round and round, pointing toward her hind end and I know it is time to get her outside, pronto.  So that was a big one there!   She also knows what I mean when I say "go pee-pee".   I must be doing something well enough to get by. 

But I'm all for easier, or more reliable methods too.   Hoping the "experts" will weight in.

Donna, "Princess" Leia, and Jazzie (cocker)

off to look for your articles about past dogs, carlene.

[zefi]

I must tell you a funny story about Scooter, my little black toy. I got him about a month before I got Billy (silver beige toy) and so had some time to spend toilet training him in the new house. I'd just bought and moved into a place in Melbourne and the fences were all terrible, broken and the yards not safe. So, given he was only a little boy, I set up an area in the enclosed back porch with newspapers and started him going there. Every time I thought he needed to pee I'd take him there, wait till he started to squat then I'd say 'go pee' and then give him a treat after.

One day I'd got roast chicken for dinner and as I was cutting it up to serve I saw him go to the newspapers and pee so I said 'Good Boy!' and gave him some roast chicken. Then I want back to work... and I heard newspapers rustling, long and loud... I peeked round the corner and there was Scooter, messing up those papers and looking over his shoulder to make sure I'd seen him, then crouching to squeeze out a single drop of pee! LOL I just had to give him another bit of chicken for that! 

[bunny]

Hi zefi,

Scooter was one smart boy!!   It doesn't take long does it?  And people say they have no reasoning power.  All I can say is that they haven't lived around smart dogs like Scooter if they believe that.

Since going outside is such a great big deal, I'm rewarding with cheese at the moment. I want an indelible impression.  Well this morning, after feeding, I took Leia outside and she dutifully did her job.   Then I came in and went downstairs to work.   Usually she is a little velcro dog and she comes right down too.  But this morning she just hung up at the top of the stairs, looking at me like "haven't you forgotten something?"   Then I remembered, I had forgotten the treat for a job well done. I went back up and by the time I got into the kitchen she was already poised in position in front ot the fridge.    She was saying "it's about time you got that cheese".  Better than a hand written message.

Donna