Giving fresh veggies to the poodles

[Helen]

Ever since we got Archie, we changed how we are feeding the poos.  This is after talking about it with his breeder.  She got us excited about feeding better food.

I've getting them Innova EVO kibble, and mixing in a couple of tablespoons of the EVO canned.  It's all natural, human quality food, with no grains.  We are also adding veggies and sometimes some yogurt or egg yolk.   We talked about raw chicken wings, but my hubby won't allow it.  Oh, we did use up a bunch of raw hamburger that a patient gave us (from his personal cows), and the doggies loved that.

My question is about the veggies.  So far I'm giving them carrots, peas, green beans, cauliflower, spinach and brocolli.  When I was cleaning up the dog run today (cuz our yard guy is on vacation), I saw that the peas seem to be going right through them.  They were obvious in the poop.  Are peas no good for dogs?  Or am I wasting my time?  or am I supposed to do something differently?  I'm buying giant bags of frozen veggies, and just thawing them out, chopping them up (except the peas have just been going in whole), and mixing it all together with the kibble and a bit of canned food.

[Bookend]

Forget the peas, not much nutritional value in them and high sugar.

For vegetables to be digested by dogs the cellulose has be be broken down, either by cooking or putting through a blender, juicer or something. Most frozen vegetables have been "blanched" which should have broken down the cellulose enough but you could always zapp them in the microwave for a couple of minutes:)

[auntie c]

I have always given my babies veges... I make them lamb or veal/rice/3 vege rissoles. I make them about once a week and keep them in the fridge...

carlene and harry who

ps:   I think that it is worth noting that we should never never ever give dogs corn on the cob, no matter how small.

[zefi]

Why are you giving fresh vegies in kibble Helen? I thought the point of feeding vegies was as part of a cooked (human) diet or a raw diet.

I use frozen vegies too cause I'm too lazy nowdays, but when I did used to do the whole raw food thing I used to put vegies through the blender and then blanche them in boiling water before mixing them in the dogs food.

Now I feed mainly raw chicken wings and necks and whatever, the odd meal of cooked meat, vegies and pasta, and I add a teaspoon of supplement to the raw chicken as an additional source of vitamins and minerals. Come to think of it, I'm running low and should order more...

 

[Helen]

Okay, forget the peas.  I didn't think about the high sugar, but now that you mention it, it seems I've heard that before.  I can go ahead and cook the other stuff more.  I thought they were supposed to be raw, but I can easily cook them a bit.

Why am I giving them veggies?  Uh.. I thought it would be good for them?   Okay let's see.. I just googled for the Innova EVO ingredients so I could see it again.  They say it's a raw-based food created for people who cannot do a full raw diet for their dogs.  The list includes all kinds of "human quality" chicken, turkey, salmon, eggs, veggies, fruits, cottage cheese, and lots of other stuff.  (Gee, maybe I should start eating this stuff.)  Hmm... maybe I don't need to add the veggies.  Altho I think I might continue with the green beans, they really like them, and it's making Chula think she's getting more food, while I'm trying to cut her down a little and see if we can get some of this weight off her.

[auntie c]

Helen, if getting weight off is your aim.  Would it not be logical to just give her a fat free diet, ie, rice, fish, lean meats and veg, maybe twice a day if you think she needs to feel she is getting quantity....

I know when max was in his last weeks (not for weight reasons though) I was giving him veal mince, rice and the 3 veg rissoles i make, pan frying them in a non stick frypan, (no oil) and twice a week he had tuna with a cup of rice....

goodluck

carlene and harry who
australia

[Helen]

Yah, that would be good, Carlene.  But to tell you the truth, it's bad enough I have to cook for my hubby!  I'll probably get boo-ed out of here now.    But I just can't see me creating wonderful cooked meals for the pups.  As Popeye would say, "I yam what I yam".

Her weight is coming down slowly, which is good.  She's eating healthier now, and we're lowering the prednisone, and Archie has got her playing like she hasn't played in years!

[Bookend]

If you are using veggies to stop her feeling hungry and try and lose weight, yes runner beans are good(my Daisy loved those too)and so is pumpkin. I think in the US you can buy the stuff in cans (plain stuff, not the ones with sugar for the pies) but I just buy a quarter or so, cut it in chunks without peeling and zapp in the microwave in a steaming dish. Takes about 8 minutes, I turn the pieces around half way through. Then you just scoop it off the skin and mix with their food.  They only need a couple of table spoonfuls, so you can get away with doing it once or twice a wek.

That isn't hard work and its very good for them too, keep the bowels regular and is used for treament for constipation and diarareah

[Helen]

That's a great idea, Pam.  Thanks!  The pumpkin sounds like something they'd like a lot. 

I took Chula to get her bloodwork done today and found out she'd regained 3 of the pounds she'd lost.  Sigh.

[Lesly]

I feed Innova EVO, and my two are doing really well on it.  Even so, I do add fresh meats and poultry, and occasionally give them sardines, Alaskan Salmon, and other fish I have on hand.  I steam fresh veggies, staying away from carrots and peas (too much sugar), and limit the amount of broccoli and cauliflower.  Mostly spinach, asparagus, green beans, kale, and sweet potato.  I add the meat and veggies to brown rice, which I make with low sodium chicken broth, and will poach chicken breasts and/or ground lamb or beef.    They love their green beans and spinach with a sprinkle of parmeasan cheese! 

Maddy and Bo love their cottage cheese, and get excited when they see the yogurt container in my hand!  LOL  I spoon feed them these things, because I add their probiotic and Wild Alaskan Salmon Oil capsules to it - easier and no mess!  Hard boiled eggs are a favorite with Maddy, but Bo prefers his eggs scrambled, with a little melted cheese!  I make them an omlette for breakfast on Sundays, with veggies and cheese.  (They eat better than I do!)
Lesly, Maddy, and Bo (Hey!  Don't forget the Pizza!)

[zefi]

That does it... I'm moving in with you Lesly! 

[Helen]

Wow, you are such a great poodle mom, Lesly!  Thanks for listing all that stuff.  It gives me so many ideas!

[Liz King]

Hi there. I'm new to the forum - zefi sent me the link. After reading the conversation, I have some questions:
1 - Carlene and Harry Who said that corn on the cob is proscribed. Why? I gave my dogs cobs to chew on last July 4th (we're from the USA and are obliged to BBQ on 6/04 each year). They loved 'em. They chewed off the kernels and the ends of the cobs, and I threw away what was left.  The corn kernels and cob bits passed through pretty much intact, and the dogs seemed no worse for wear. What should I know about corn on the cob?
2 - plenty of people seem to be feeding chicken wings. I feed my dogs the neck and spine vertebrae after I have made soup stock, but I've been afraid to feed them any other bone bits. Can I feed the wing tips if they are cooked?
3 - my vet is old-school and chides me for feeding leftovers. I ignore him. I believe that dogs are wolves that evolved on midden heaps - garbage is their natural diet. I am careful to aviod feeding onion and garlic (makes them anemic) and grapes a chocolate and all that, but my darlings do eat almost everything that we eat (along with their kibble). But my question has to do with bones. Very old school says, give a dog a bone, unless it comes from a bird. Newer school (and my vet) says, bone fragments puncture intestines and should be avoided entirely. Evolution says, dogs evolved from wolves who eat bones all the time. I do give my dogs leftover bones now and again, but I worry all night until I see them happy and pooping normally the next day. What do I need to know about bones?
Thanks all!
liz

[zefi]

Liz, any cooked bones are a no-no. I mean any cooked bones, even from four legged animals. Something to do with them not being passed easily and forming blockages. I'm not sure, but I know that chicken bones when cooked are much more likely to splinter.

Raw chicken bones are fine cause the dog's digestive system is made to break them down. An older dog who's never been fed raw might have trouble cause it may not have developed the enzymes necessary for the break down of bones, however if you introduce them gradually you shouldnt have any trouble. I start my puppies on raw chicken bones when they are only about 4 weeks old - I toss bits of chicken carcass into the pen and let them play with them (I'd have to check my timeline for an exact age). They suck on them and pull at them and fight over them. Its so cute to watch. Not only is it teaching them to eat the bones but its helping develop the right muscles by the pulling on flesh etc. What they dont eat Pagan finishes off.

I dont let my kids have any cooked bones, but I do give them cooked food and leftovers. I am like you, I believe that dogs are omnivores and scavangers: they were made to eat anything and everything. So I give them a bit of anything I eat and I give them a mix of raw and cooked food, plus some dry food is down all the time. I introduce my puppies to dry food too cause they may be expected to eat that in their new homes, but I dont introduce them to dry food till much later cause I do believe that feeding puppies grain based stuff when they're too young can cause allergies.

Anyway, other than the cooked bones I think you are doing the right thing with your feeding.

By the way, look up Ian Billinghurst, he wrote a few books on raw feeding, Give a Dog a Bone is the most popular one. I recommend his methods though he does go a bit overboard with the preparation of the mix!

[Liz King]

Thanks much -- from myself and my two dogs -- for the clarification on bones! I am happy to know that I can both feed them what they like and sleep well at night. The vet said it was OK to feed very large bones, ones they could knaw but not eat, but those kinds of bones can no longer be found in Hawaii due to changes in the way that meat processors are shipping to Hawaii (they no longer ship whole carcases). I am surprised about the chicken wings, but happy, too, because we never eat those parts, they just go to waste. No longer!
Liz, Dottie, and Domingo